Questions with Answers.       PT2.                     Contacting us
 

On this page you will find a selection questions posed by visitors to this site relating to Locomotive hauled trains during the 1980's, together with answers recieved.  Please feel free to submit you own questions for inclusion on our Info Required page.  If you can add further details or clarifications to anything which appears here , please contact us .


This page last updated:     19/11/06.
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Q. Can anyone confirm the Webmaster's suspition that the ECS for both the Leicester - Skegness & Blackpool trains came off,
           and returned to,  Cricklewood during the summer of 1980?

Question posted: 28/11/04
A.  Mike Tongue writes... "Indeed, the Saturday trains both worked ECS from Cricklewood, although the weekday (FSX) Skegness
           train was ECS from Etches Park.

            According to my copy of the Leicester Station Working Book, the ECS workings were :

            5E86  0654 FSX ECS Derby Etches Park to Leicester (arr. 0750)  to work 1E86 0824 FSX Leicester to Skegness
            5P89  2133 FSX ECS Leicester to Derby Etches Park (via Knighton South Junction and reversal)
                                    after working 1M22 1850 FSX Skegness to Leicester

            5P38  0556 SO ECS Cricklewood to Leicester (arr. 0805) to work 1P38 0825 SO Leicester to Blackpool North
            5E86  0606 SO ECS Cricklewood to Leicester (arr. 0837) to work 1E86 0851 SO Leicester to Skegness
           5C54  1512 SO ECS Leicester to Cricklewood after working 1M02 1232 SO Skegness to Leicester
            5C43  1713 SO ECS Leicester to Cricklewood after working 1M48 1230 Scarborough to Leicester
                        (the northbound train was 1E47 0714 SO Wellingborough to Scarborough)
            5C13  1924 SO ECS Leicester to Cricklewood after working 1M65 1425 SO Blackpool North to Leicester"
Q.   Does anyone have any record of 25093 working a Relief South of Leicester along the Midland Main Line towards St Pancras
            on Saturday 16th August 1980 or was this the ECS off 1M02 1232 Skegness - Leicester?  Alan Baylis reported...
            "There is a photograph of 25093 on a 'summer Saturday additional train' south of Leicester in the book
            "Diesels on the Regions (LMR)" but, is this actually a passenger train beyond Leicester or an ECS to Cricklewood?".

A.  It was an earlier report by Mike Tongue of 25093 replacing 20139+20081 at Nottingham on the 1M02 that prompted the above
            query Mike says "Having looked again at my records, 25093 was about 15 minutes late into Leicester (due 1507, arrived 1521), I then
            went forward to Nuneaton on 31208 on 1M67 (departing at 1610).  I've got no record of anything untoward being done with
            25093 before I left, although I suppose it could have been pressed into service due to arriving late and missing onward
            connections - the problem with this is that there was a train to St.Pancras due to depart at 1550."
           See also May 1980 Diary .


Q.  Were you in Inverness or anywhere along the far north line during early July 1984?  If so, can you help put a date to the following
            set of workings:
26032+26038
 0635 Inverness - Wick
 1200 Wick - Inverness
 1735 Inverness Wick, to Brora
 1800 Wick - Inverness, from Brora		 37025
 1135 Inverness Wick
 1800 Wick - Inverness, to Brora
 1735 Inverness - Wick, from Brora		 37183
 Thurso branch duties
          Dates already ruled out are Sundays 1st, 8th and 15th.  If you can't identify the actual date, can you rule out other dates?
Question Originally posted: 27/01/01
          'ANON' now reports having had 37025 working the 2N14 0600 Wick - Inverness service on the 6th July 1984 and, by diagram at
              least, 37025 should have worked the 1135 back to Wick... no other details were reported, so at least we have a possible date here?
Question Re-posted: 07/02/04
A.  'Pogo' says...  "On the 08/08/84 I had 26032/038 on 2K03 0635 Inverness-Wick and back on 2N26 1200 Wick-Inverness. 37183 was
            on the Thurso portion of these trains. I did the 26's to wick for the bus to thurso for 37183 on 2K05 Thurso-Georgemas Jct
            for the 26's back to Inverness."

Q. Dominic Fletcher is hoping to fill in a blank in his records.  Sometime during the summer of 85 (or 86?) he had a pair of Class 20's
         between Pontefract and Moorthorpe, but which ones?  He also recalls there was also a Class 37 out on a relief following behind
         (Possibly the 1800ish York - Birmingham?).  We are looking for conformation of the locos, service details and a date with loco's out
         as described above - there can't be too many of those?.

         Four possible dates when 20's are known to have worked are:
         06/07/85 20098+20146 2H09 1721 York - Sheffield Races Relief
         13/07/85 20098+20146 2H09 1721 York - Sheffield
         20/08/85 20013+20047 ???? 1721 York - Sheffield
         21/08/85 20099+20116 2H09 1721 York - Sheffield , 20116 failed Rotherham
         At the moment we have no '37' gen to confirm a date - any ideas?  We currently have NO gen re 20's working S out of York during 86.

Question posted: 24/10/04
A. 'Pogo' says... "On the 20/08/85 I had 20047/013 on 2H09 1721 York-Sheffield.  Behind it was 37202 on 1Z97 1815 York-Derby relief."


Q. On 22nd June 1987, 47019 worked 1M54 1944 Blackpool - Nottingham.  Richard Rooker says..."I did 47019 Man Vic - Sheffield in
          the evening (went out as I needed 47299 and got a dud one instead)." 47299 had worked the morning trip and was removed from
          1M26 outward service at Man Vic.  "As far as I recall, due to station congestion at Sheffield, 1M54 went into the bay platform No.7
          I had to rush off for my bus home so never got to see  if a gronk released 47019, if 47019 released itself or if they just dropped
          another loco on the rear to take it forward to Nottingham."  Can anyone shed more light on this?  Also see Notts - Blackpool Listing.
Question posted: 28/03/04
A. Ian McLean says... "I remember well the driver taking the route into Platform 7 at Sheffield that night and the trouble it caused   To
            answer the question there was no gronk, or another loco for that matter involved, just a lot of head scratching and finger wagging
            accusations going backwards and forwards.  The problem was that the track circuits were still showing occupied as the train was
            longer than the bay platform so at first the box would not let the train set back out of the station, however, with no other loco
            available they eventually had to back track on this and allow the train to set back out to the signal the other side of East Bank
            Tunnel. It took about an hour for someone to get the authority to do this, and the train was then able to access a through
            platform and head for Derby via Beighton."


Q. Jeremy Hinks asks... "If anyone knows what worked 1V13 15:00 Manchester P - Swansea on Sunday 4th August 1985?"
Question posted: 15/02/03
A. Peter Scott replies... "47465"

Q. Andrew Thomas asks..."Does anyone have a list of the locos (mainly interested in scrap) present at Crewe Works Open Day 4/7/87?"
            And..."the whereabouts of 03078 (Gateshead allocated) for Saturday 24/10/87 (as I think I have seen it on the end of Newcastle
            railway station but need clarification."
Question re-posted: 13/06/04
A.  Mark Nicoll writes..."Didnt actually attend the works open day myself but according to the works report in RE No 72 (sep 87)
            the following withdrawn locos were present at the open day:

            40008/20/28/44/56/58/88/91/104/115/139/155/195
            45053
            47001/089/191/230/275/282/405/409/414/429/437/464/486
            50011
            81015/022
            84008
            85001/39
            86211/86429

            I went round the works a few months before the open day photographing the withdrawn 40s and of the class 40s listed in RE 72
            the only 40 I didnt phot that March was 40056.   It could be that this was a misprint in RE ... I noted 40057  in works in Mar 87.

            The same report in RE also lists various tractors going thru refurbishment and all other locos in service at the time.

            Hope this helps you Andrew?"


Q. Jerome Becoulet would like any... "Information about the old MOTORAIL services in the UK  Days of running etc."
 
Question posted: 13/09/03
A. Alan Baylis replies..."I never appreciated just how valuable the old 1H8x books would become but they can provide an answer to the
        question posed above for 1981 onwards.

        1H81 states that for June 81 to May 82 the following Motorail services operated however these will be dated services that only
        ran over the summer period:

        Departures from:                 To:
        Brockenhurst                        1M63 S/Su 2035 Kensington O.         portion for 1S15 2120 Dover W. Dock
        Dover                                       1S15 S/Su 2120 Stirling        attaches 1M63 at Kensington O.
        Ely                                            1S56 M/W/FO 2135 Inverness
        Inverness                                1M36 FO 0945 Birmingham Int.
                                                          1M78 SO 1950 Kensington O.
                                                          1E46 T/ThO 2020 Ely
                                                          1M78 T/W/ThO 2125 Kensington O.
                                                          1E46 SO 2135 Ely
         Kensington O.                       1O27 SO 0425 Brockenhurst
                                                           1O27 Su 0530 Brockenhurst               both portions off 1O92 2020 Stirling
                                                           1V34 Su 0745 St. Austell
                                                           1V34 SO 0750 St. Austell
                                                           1S55 SO 0855 Perth
                                                           1S55 M-F 1055 Perth
                                                           1S55 Su 1200 Perth
                                                           1S01 M-F 1920 Inverness
                                                           1S22 M-F 2055 Stirling
                                                           1S00 SO 2135 Perth
          Newton Abbot                        1S54 T/Th/SO 2010 Stirling
          Perth                                       1M69 SO 0903 Kensington O.
                                                           1M69 M-F 0955 Kensington O.
                                                            1M69 Su 1030 Kensington O.
                                                            1M81 SO 2118 Kensington O.
          St. Austell                               1M01 Su 1535 Kensington O.
                                                            1M01 SO 1615 Kensington O.
          Stirling                                    1O92 F/SO 2020 Dover W. Dock
                                                            1V54 Su/W/FO 2158 Newton Abbot
                                                            1M62 FX 2340 Kensington O.

 1H82 states that for May 82 to Oct 82 the following Motorrail services operated (Note: They are all shown as being dated services and
therefore would not have operated on all dates in this period):

            Departures from:                 To:
            Ely                                            1S56 WO 1830 Inverness
            Inverness                                1E46 TO 1824 Ely
                                                              1E46 Th/SO 1824 York
            Newton Abbot                        1S54 T/Th/SO 2010 Stirling
            Stirling                                   1V59 Su/W/FO 2200 Newton Abbot
            York                                        1S56 MFO 2210 Inverness

1H83 states that in 1983 the following Motorrail services operated however these are dated services that only ran over the summer period:

            Departures from:                 To:
            Euston                                    1S01 M/W/FO 1115 Stirling
            Newton Abbot                        1S54 W/F/SO 2015 Stirling
            Stirling                                  1M69 SO 1103 Euston
                                                             1M69 TThO 1203 Euston
                                                             1V59 W/F/Su 2200 Newton Abbot
 

1H84 states that for the 1984 summer timetable the following Motorrail services operated:

            Departures from:                 To:
            Euston                                    1S01 TThSO 1115 Stirling
                                                             1S01 Su 2230 Stirling
            Newton Abbot                        1S54 MWO 0815 Stirling
                                                             1S54 FO 2005 Stirling
            Stirling                                  1V59 TThO 0925 Newton Abbot
                                                             1V59 SO 1100 Newton Abbot
                                                             1M69 MWFO 1130 Euston
                                                             1M69 SO 2200 Euston

1H85 AND 1H86 state that for the May 85 and May 86 summer timetables the following Motorrail services operated (Note: They are dated
services and therefore may not have operated on all dates in this period):

            Departures from:                 To:
            Euston                                     1S01 TThSO 1118 Stirling
                                                             1S01 Su 2230 Stirling
            Stirling                                  1M69 MWFO 1130 Euston
                                                             1M69 SO 2200 Euston


Q.    Mick Sasse asked..."In Spring or Summer of, I think, 1983 (though it could have been later!), I was in Carlisle and due to travel
             back to Newcastle on the late afternoon loco-hauled train to Edinburgh (a sorely-missed service!).  Was disappointed that
             the loco wasn't a class 46, which often worked the service, but 472XX (for some reason I keep thinking 47270 but that could
             be quite wrong).

             The thing is, the '47 failed before departure, and was replaced by the very fine no-heat Immingham 37201, and treated me to
             a seriously hellfire run along the Tyne Valley.  I also recall that it was replaced at Newcastle by a class 31 (I think it was
             311XX - definitely not a 31/4 anyway) for the run up to Edinburgh.

             All I'd actually like to know is what the DATE of this memorable run was.  I've had a soft spot for that particular tractor ever
             since.  I'm hoping someone might know this, as I got rid of all my notebooks some years ago when I thought I wasn't into
             trains any more...  Trouble is, I'm pretty certain there were no bashers at all on board that day until Newcastle!"
 

Question posted: 28/02/04
A. David Harmer wrote..."My records show 37201 to have worked 1S15 (1538 Carlisle - Edinburgh) from Carlisle to Newcastle
         on Monday 04-04-1983.  It was replaced by 31126 at the Central, (much to Andy Mustoe's annoyance as he was at Berwick!).

        My moves that day ?
        45130 1E94 0805 LIME ST. - NEWCASTLE from YORK - NEWCASTLE
        40013 1E95 1105 WAVERLEY - KINGS CROSS from NEWCASTLE - KINGS CROSS
       43093+43103 1730 KINGS CROSS - NEWCASTLE from KINGS CROSS - YORK"

Answered: 27/04/04

Q. Dave P asked..." I did a Southern region tour in late 1994 or 1995 called the Tatty Cat. It was one of D Tours' infamous
         round-and-round-the-Southern-in-circles tours which took in Tattenham Corner and Caterham amongst others. It was booked
         for 33117 and a 73 on diesel dragging a VEP but 117 failed at Waterloo and 33116 appeared instead. Two questions - which
         73 worked the train, and where the hell did it go? Was anybody out there on it, and recorded the move as for some reason I
         didn't write it down."
Question posted: 11/04/04
A. Richard Rooker replied..."The Tatty Cat railtour ran on 4th March 1995 and was -
        73105 Clapham J - Putney - Kingston - Waterloo.
        33116 Waterloo - Wimbledon - Chessington South - Wimbleon - Cobham - Guildford - West Croydon - Norwood J -
        Tattenham Corner - Purley - Caterham - London Bridge - Streatham - West Crodon - Balham - Waterloo.
        I got this info from The Railtour Files at http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sixbells/trf/trfindex.htm" David Davis also supplied similar info.

        We would always highly recommend the Six Bells web site whenever anyone has a query relating to Railtours and other special
        workings.  The Six Bells site specialises in recording such trains and in far greater detail than we have the time or space do do here
        (though we do include such workings when details are supplied to us).


Q. Richard Rooker did the following move, on Saturday 6th September 1986, but regrettably failed to record the service details:
            47188 Sheffield - Wakefield K
            walk to Wakefield W for
            47011 Wakefield W - Leeds               (  We were able to add straight away that 47011 had been reported  as 1L31 1328 Skegness -
            Leeds (booked 1616 off Westgate). )   So just what was 47188 working?  The only theory we had was that it may have been a
            1515 Sheffield - Leeds DMU (1607 off Kirkgate), of which Richard says... "Its the only time I have ever got off at Kirkgate, loco
            or otherwise, as well as the only time I have walked between both stations.  I do remember we were in a rush to get from Kirkgate
            to Westgate.  I can't remember if it was vice DMU or dragging a DMU but it was definitely a loco to Kirkgate."
            So just what was 47188 working?
Question posted: 13/03/04
A.    Nick Farrant wrote..."My notes indicates I had it Sheffield - Elsecar on 14.15 Sheffield - Leeds.  This is an hour earlier than
            summised on the site, but from my notes made on the day."
Answered: 28/03/04

Q. Dominic Fletcher asked..."July 2nd 1988, 47276 shown on 1420 Newcastle - Liverpool LS shown  as working throughout?
            From memory I'm sure this only worked from Huddersfield after the failure of another 47, possibly 47 475?  Can anyone confirm?
 
Question posted: 13/03/04
A. Si Carter says..."I can confirm that 47276 *did* work throughout.  What happened was that the outward working suffered
         a failure en route and never reached Newcastle - so the 1420 was a kickout from Gateshead with a scratch rake of MkI's.
         I literally fell over it at Newcastle - the screens showed it as 14:18 Carlisle so I got on anyway, only for it to be announced
         as the Liverpool train - bonus!"
Answered: 16/03/04



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