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relating to Locomotive hauled trains during the 1980's.
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Q. Andre of the Stratford 47
Group asks...
"As far as I can work out from
this photo http://richardarmstrong.fotopic.net/p34413136.html
47367 had a bit of a prang with a Parcels train
whilst on a freight on the 3rd May 1983.
Does anyone know what trains were involved
and why etc.....
As this is the first bit of evidence of why 47367
received a flat front.
A. On 03rd May 1983 while working a Teeside - Hunslet East Oil Terminal block
tank train. 47367 ploughed into the back of an e.c.s. parcels train for
Redbank on the up goods lines at Neville Hill. The result being the back
vehicle riding over the buffers and destroying the number 1 end cab of
47367. Help came form Healey Mills breakdown train around 13:30 and was
initially moved to Neville Hill TMD before being moved to Crewe Works.
Recorded as being out of service from 09/05/83 and received new number 1 Cab
fitted at Crewe works and released on 09/11/83.
Q. Also
47596 worked the following charters in 1988
and 1989
2nd May 1988 47596 worked a
St. James Day Tripper Charter but
being a Bristol Bath Road loco at the time dose anyone know if the train
started
at Rose Grove and how much did 47596 work as Rose Grove is in the North West and
the Charter went to the seaside resort of Dawlish
A. Have found out the flowing from St. James Day Tripper
47596 Alderburgh Festival did indeed work the St. James Day Tripper from
Rose Grove to Exeter and Dawlish on Bank Holiday Monday, 2nd May 1988. The
itinerary for the trip, which 47596 worked throughout was as follows.
5Z36 0409 ECS (11 vehicles) Longsight C.S. to Rose Grove (calling at
Blackburn at 0604 en route) then:-
1Z36 Rose Grove Dep. 0700 Arrive 2345
Accrington Dep. 0709 " 2336
Rishton Dep 0715 " 2330
Blackburn Dep 0722 " 2321
Mill Hill Dep 0726 " 2317
Cherry Tree Dep 0729 " 2314
Preston Dep 0759 " 2245
Exeter Arr. 1255 Dep. 1801
Dawlish Arr. 1309 Dep. 1746
The loco then took the ecs to Plymouth(Laira) for servicing but I'm afraid
I've no timings for that.
David Hunter adds... "5R36 2350 Rose Grove - Longsight.
Rose Grove DGL arr 23:52 RR dep 00:15
Rose Grove 00/17
Blackburn 00/30
Farington Jn 00/43
Balshaw Lane Jn 00/48
Manchester Victoria 01/22
Ashton Moss North Jn 01/30
Stockport arr 01:48 RR dep 02:08
Manchester Piccadilly arr 02:15 RR dep 02:35 and onto Longsight.
Q. Peter Mantle asks...
"Does any one know
if any class 33/1s worked on the North Wales coast, on the Cardiff-
Llandudno and the Crewe- Holyhead trains?"
A. Your Webmaster says...
"As far as I am
aware, no 33/1's worked any of the scheduled services along the North
Wales Coast route during the mid-1980's
(but would obviously be interested to hear if any did). It
was always the 33/0's & 33/2's in my experience, but, I do know
that a 33/1
did once work to Bangor on a charter which was formed of 4TC stock, so..."
Q.
"Does anyone have any details of A Class 33/1 hauled Charter to
Bangor. My best guess at a date for this working is Saturday 1st
July 1989
- or maybe later that summer). I did think we had full
details of this working on file but that now appears not to be the case
- Also this working is not, at present,
to be found on the "Six
Bells Junction" site either. (Haven't I also seen a published
photo of this working somewhere?) Any details welcome."
A. David Rapson (Merseyside Railway Society) says...
"The train ran on Saturday 1st July 1989 from
Wareham to Bangor. It was formed of 33109
and 4TC's 8012 and 8015 and, on the return trip, 19.20
from Bangor, the 'Crompton' propelled at least as far as Chester."
Steve Kemp adds: "I am 99.9% sure no 33/1 did a service train to Crewe or North Wales 33115 came via Stoke on the Poole - Man Picc." (16/01/86).
http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw0401a.htm
Q. 'Mutly' asked..."Whilst
doing an East mid rover back in either 79/80,(may even have been 1981
but I dont think so) i was bashing some Deltics (ok so the ticket
wasnt
valid but what the hell!) I cannot remember the date at all, but I can
clearly remember 56061/2 brand new on MGR's through Doncaster,
All that week I
viewed 50024 ex works on the test train, then at the end of the week I
did a Deltic to York and fell on the 50024 on 1V93, this I duly
had to
Sheffield (I was going to take her to Brum, but it was the worst run iv
ever had out of a 50, so couldn't get off quick enough!).
For years I've being
trying to sus out the date without sucess, so I was wondering if there
is anyone out there who knows?"
.A. The date that 50024 worked 1V93 was 21st August 1979!
This is
currently believed to be only the 2nd Class 50 to return home on
1V93. I can find no other record of 50024 working 1V93 after this date.
Also, 56061
& 56062 were both delivered new to traffic during August 1979 which
also ties in nicely with the above..
Q. Andrew Pullar asks..." 10/08/1975 a Sunday, 1M10 Glasgow Central to
London Euston was hauled between Glasgow and Carlisle by
50041; being replaced by 82002.
I have a recollection
of catching this
train and that it ran via Paisley Gilmour Street. Can anyone
confirm the route this train was booked to run and if
this was the
actual route taken on the day? My notes only
say via Dumfries and I've lost my timetable for the period in a house
move."
.A. John Simmonds has provided some further info re the booked routing of this service...
"During the May 1975-May 1976 timetable period Sunday night departures from Glasgow Central to
Euston running via the GSW are at 2210 'The Night Caledonian' & & 2230 both of which arrive at
Carlisle in the early hours of Monday morning. As I don't have a WCML working timetable for
the period I can't say which headcodes each train carried."
Q. David Wilson <43100> asks..."I'm looking for a date (around about 1978-79) and the other traction
involved in what was either
a Mystex or Holiday Preview train (remember them?) from Edinburgh to
Morecambe. I can't recall what worked it to
Carstairs, but 83013 worked it from there to Carnforth
(Down Loop?) where 40010 was attached fro the direct
run into Morecambe.
All us young spotters then jumped a DMU back to
Lancaster in order to have a day spotting at Preston.
On arrival at Lancaster our 83 (013) was sitting
stabled in the station having run down light from Carnforth.
The train to Preston rolled in behind a 47 (so I'm
guessing it was from Barrow) which for some reason
or other was removed from the train and replaced
with 83013 which worked the train to Preston and beyond
(Euston?).
On our return to Morecambe 40010 was at the head of
the train, but this time it didn't come off at
Carnforth - as 83013 had of course gone, and so the
40 worked through to Carstairs for another unknown
loco up the hill to Waverley."
.A. Brendan Kilgallon has kindly provide the following info :
Date: 28th April 1979 BR Mystex Edinburgh-Morecambe
47428 Edinburgh - Carstairs
83013 Carstairs - Carnforth
40010 Carnforth - Morecambe
40010 Morecambe - Carstairs
47428 Carstairs - Edinburgh
Q. Phil Bartlett asks... "Spotted this on Ebay as Item number: 200154760408.
Starting at £1.29 with no bids.
A 6"x4" print of Class 37 6827 (37127) leading 86043 in blue livery at
Cannock on 24/2/74.
Right into the early 1980s class 37s were not particularly common in the
West Midlands (on Bescot based jobs) with few BS drivers signing them.
So, with the Cannock line being predominantly a Bescot driver's
playground this is a rare shot IMHO.
Even more unusual is the train it was working - 1A23 in 1980 was the
0627 Holyhead-Euston. Whether it was in 1974 is a moot point.
The composition of the train could suggest that with a BG and a BSK
marshalled behind the class 86 it could have come from Holyhead,
with an
engine change at Crewe, then a diesel pilot from Stafford or Rugeley TV.
BTW - I should say that the Cannock line is an unwired double track line from Rugeley TV on the WCML, over Cannock Chase to meet
other lines at
Ryecroft Jn just north of Walsall. It was used regularly for weekend diversions into the 1990s, usually being the preserve
of class 40s and
47s at that time although other classes have regularly worked over there in more
recent times.
Where would the 37 have come from?"
.A. Took a quick look at the photo, thought the description sounded
familiar. Another photo of this working as been published: in Railway
Magazine,
June 1974 issue, across the middle of Page 291.
Class 37 6827 (37127) had been transferred from the ER to Saltley for
driver training purposes only
days before and this probably explains
it's presence in the area. It would have been a 'massive' working at
the time. 6827 only stayed 3 or 4 weeks
at SY before transfer on to TI.
According to the photo caption in the mag detailed above, the service
worked by 6827 was the 07.58 Holyhead - Euston.
This is
confirmed in the following report from the RCTS mag 'Railway
Observer' April 1974 issue...
"On 17th and
24th February (1974), engineering operations caused TV
trains to be diverted via Rugeley, Walsall, New St, Saltley and
Nuneaton
with pantographs down on electric
locos. Most of the diverted trains, with 47's although 6827, at
Saltley for Crew training, worked 1A23 07.58
Holyhead - Euston on 24th."
A couple of
Class 50's (then still allocated to Crewe) also worked trains from New
St via Cannock to/from Lime St that day (those were 414
(50014) &
432 (50032), but these locos appearing on Sunday 'Drags' was
not that rare at that time although they may still have been rarer over
the Cannock route.
Q. Steve Lawton asks .... "Looking for your Diary for 30th June 1984 it states that '45134 1E28 0855 Weymouth - Bradford from'.
I would be interested to know
where 45134 worked this train from as I caught it from Coventry to
Birmingham New Street.
Rumour had it that 45134 was on
Bristol Bath Road earlier on that Saturday morning, so how did it get
onto the above train?"
All reports
of 1E28 on this date received at the time the above was posted were
from north of Birmingham. 1E28 was booked to change
engines at Reading only, but we
couldn't be sure if the Peak did work from there or not at that time.
.A. Colin Brooks ... as now supplied a photo which shows 45134 in Reading yard at 0850 on the 30th June 1984. It is now believed 45134 worked 1E28 0855
Weymouth -
Bradford forwards from Reading on this date. Rumour of 45134 at
Bath road on this date now seam dubious, as a further report received
has 45134
reaching Reading the previous day working the 1O19 0805 Newcastle -
Poole through to Reading.
Q. Jamie Course asks..."I recently found a picture of 40069 at Sheffield in the centre road... With a passenger service
the service was the 2J95 on the 2nd.October.1982
There seems to
be a member of staff... Possibly the guard climbing either in or out of
the 40.
And i was wondering if the 2J95 was scheduled for a stop or
crew change etc. in centre road
at Sheffield or if this service was diverted, or held at a red flag... etc."
A. This is the 2D95 0840 Cleethorpes - Doncaster passenger turn (which also
conveyed vans). When 2D95 was extended to Sheffield, which seams to
have happened
quite often, it was recoded 2J95. I have a couple of
reports that on 02/10/82 40069 worked 2D95 extended to Sheffield and
recoded as 2J95. The loco and stock off
2D95/2J95 detached vans at
Sheffield for Nunnery CS, then after stabling in the centre rds at
Sheffield awhile, continuing to Longsight as ECS. However, from
Monday
04/10/82 2D95 was removed from the passenger timetable, running for the
next few years as ECS thoughout, continuing to call at Sheffield to
detach
those vans. Class 40's often featured.
Q. "50019
worked the 14.25 Plymouth - Glasgow on two Sundays in February 1988,
has anybody got the dates?"
A. 'Goyle' replies..."50019 worked 1S71 1425 Ply-Glasgow on Sunday 14th and 28th February 1988."
Q. Graeme Salt asked the following :."
A real long shot, this
one. Some time in November 1980, there was a Merrymaker excursion from
Sheffield to London (Liverpool Street) and
return. As I
recall, it was routed Sheffield - Nottingham - Grantham - ECML to
Finsbury Park, then via the freight link to the North London
Line and onto the GE main line into Liv St. - quite a railtour. Anyone
know the date, and what locos were involved?"
A. Peter Hall recalls..."On
Saturday 13th December 1980 there was a 08.17 Mexborough-Liverpool
Street. I caught it from Sheffield. My note book shows it
as being headed by 47279 with the note via Nottingham, Finsbury Park
and Channalsea Junction. The return 18.12 Liverpool Street-Mexborough
that I
travelled on to Sheffield was 47528 returning as outward."
Graeme Salt say...""I suspect it was the same train - I vaguely remember it being a 47 out for a different one back. I could
well be out by a month - I
was a humble spotter back then, and didn't start to record journeys
properly until early '81. The
scant details I've got
(basically the route, which is exactly as above) would have been noted
down retrospectively, probably
2 - 3 years after the event.
I seem to recall, any maybe someone could confirm this, that the train
was originally supposed to run into KX and
that the change to Liv St. was announced just before departure. When we
failed to turn left at Peterborough, I thought it had
been swapped back again, right up until we dived off the ECML at the
last minute! This was a bonus, as the GE was much
richer spotting territory for a ned from Sheffield...
Of course, it COULD have been a different train, a month or so earlier
- seems unlikely though."
Q. Rob Callaghan asked the following on behalf of a friend...
"What worked the following services:
17 August 1985
1E08 0921 Bangor-Newcastle 45111
1E99 1114 Bangor-Newcastle 47436
24 Dec 1986
1M76 1420 Newcastle-Liverpool 45144
27 September 1987
1E08 0817 Holyhead-Newcastle "27th was a Sunday and as far as the records show no trans pennines ran from North Wales"
1E99 1114 Bangor-Newcastle
24 Dec 1987
1M58 0825
Nec-Liverpool shown as
47413
CONFLICTING INFO received for our records. 47413
1M63 1025 Nec-Liverpool shown as 47413 CONFLICTING INFO received for our records. 47411
1 April 1989
1M53 0605 Newcastle-Liverpool 47434
1O11 0657
Newcastle-Poole
47657
1M58 0820 Newcastle-Liverpool 47503
1M63 1020 Newcastle-Liverpool 47454
1E49 0701 Liverpool-Newcastle 47488
1E53 0901 Liverpool-Newcastle 47424 ALL WITH THANKS TO.... David Garnett